Chat transcript from TCHS SRM 58: Spotlight Session with SnapDragon
Handle	Comment
glue2glee	SnapDragon: why didnt you ever appeared in IOI?
SnapDragon	cpphamza: Yo
SnapDragon	glue2glee: Canada wasn't really organized back when I was in high school
SnapDragon	glue2glee: We fielded an IOI team, but it was only from the Eastern provinces. I never had a chance to try out.
tsalman	SnapDragon: hi :)
SnapDragon	'lo all
tsalman	SnapDragon: can you describe the training you had during your university ?
tsalman	SnapDragon: in your interview, you said that extensive training gave u all
SnapDragon	tsalman: Sure, but let's wait till more people are here :)
tsalman	SnapDragon: skills u have now :-)
cpphamza	SnapDragon: I've a question, What skills do you think one needs to be like high red in topcoder, i mean good knowledge of algorithms along with good coding skills only grants me and many people i know to be yellow here!
tsalman	SnapDragon: sure :-)
SnapDragon	tsalman: Yeah, it's 90% due to practice
jmpld40	In a few minutes the chat will start officially!
SnapDragon	cpphamza: Well, I know it's a dissatisfying answer, but I really just think it takes a lot of practice :)
AjJi	SnapDragon: I heard that you are a great gamer, are you a fan of mariokart64 ? :-)
SnapDragon	cpphamza: And it's probably harder to be red now than it used to be.
SnapDragon	AjJi: I did like it. Went for a couple of times, but the competition in MK64 is in-bloody-sane
SnapDragon	AjJi: I seem to remember my best-rated time was on Banshee Boardwalk or something
SnapDragon	AjJi: Snaking is so hard
AjJi	SnapDragon: great :-)
cpphamza	SnapDragon: I see, well do you think such practice should be in some direction/approach, or just pick any problem and solve it!
SnapDragon	cpphamza: To do well in TopCoder you really need breadth, I think
SnapDragon	cpphamza: On an ACM team you can get away with specialties
SnapDragon	cpphamza: So you need to practice all kinds of problems. ESPECIALLY the ones you have trouble with. :)
martins256	hi
oh_No	SnapDragon: do you participate in match?
xhae	oh the Dragon is here :D
SnapDragon	oh_No: No, too late for me
SnapDragon	oh_No: I only do the 9:00 pm ones these days
martins256	SnapDragon: how old are you?
cpphamza	SnapDragon: I've problems with problems that contain a lot of details and may require a combination of multiple algorithms/tricks to solve, I just can't hold all the details up in my head, any advice how to approach such problems?
SnapDragon	martins256: 28
SnapDragon	martins256: Sorry, 29
SnapDragon	martins256: LOL
martins256	SnapDragon: :D
SnapDragon	cpphamza: Actually, I find the complex ones usually don't have hard algorithms.
cpphamza	SnapDragon: yep but many details, and that's my problem
SnapDragon	cpphamza: But that's definitely a skill, being able to assemble a lot of pieces together reliably
SnapDragon	cpphamza: And I think part of why I do well is I've gotten more consistent. It's a lot easier to find 1 or 2 bugs in a program than 10 or 15.
SnapDragon	cpphamza: Once you've practiced a lot, you're really just piecing together things you've coded before, 99% of the time. :)
novero	SnapDragon: how did you practise when you just started pragramming ... any specific strategy followed
SnapDragon	novero: It was a different era back then
SnapDragon	novero: But it's the same as today: I just did zillions and zillions of problems of all kinds
SnapDragon	novero: Back when I was starting out, UVA didn't exist; it was hard to find good contest problems
SnapDragon	novero: Nowadays there are almost too many
Neverauskas	SnapDragon: How big is your zillion? about 1000?
felix_halim	SnapDragon: are you planning to write books on those problems?
SnapDragon	Neverauskas: I've probably done thousands of problems in my lifetime
SnapDragon	Neverauskas: That's my off-the-cuff estimate :)
mishastassen	SnapDragon: how did you find contest problems in "that era"?
SnapDragon	felix_halim: Lots of others have written web guides (and even a book or two)
SnapDragon	felix_halim: I've considered making a website before, but never got around to it :)
SnapDragon	felix_halim: And there are plenty out there
SnapDragon	mishastassen: They were quite trivial by today's standards
SnapDragon	mishastassen: A simple DP was actually considered a tough problem
mishastassen	SnapDragon: well, I meant that you couldn't look at uva-site
SnapDragon	mishastassen: Everyone was new to programming contests. The "standard" algorithms hadn't really crystallized
SnapDragon	mishastassen: Yeah. I believe we dug up some ACM Regionals, but even that was quite hard
mishastassen	SnapDragon: ah, interesting evolution
Neverauskas	SnapDragon: Why didn't you register for todays SRM?
SnapDragon	mishastassen: In the very beginning we actually mostly practiced on old ACM Finals and problems our coach came up with
SnapDragon	Neverauskas: Too late for me. Going to bed afterwards :)
felix_halim	SnapDragon: how often do you read research paper to solve hard problems?
mishastassen	SnapDragon: and you tried to find good testcases yourself?
SnapDragon	felix_halim: A problem that requires a research paper to solve is a bad problem.
mishastassen	SnapDragon: acm doesn't give their testcases
SnapDragon	felix_halim: You won't see them on Topcoder or (intentionally) in the ICPC. You might see a couple at UVA :)
SnapDragon	mishastassen: Yeah, our coach came up with the testcases
tsalman	felix_halim: and some more in IOI ;)
SnapDragon	mishastassen: And ran the contest as best he could in our local environment
mishastassen	SnapDragon: good coach :)
glue2glee	SnapDragon: who was he?
SnapDragon	mishastassen: Yeah. He was Gordon Cormack. A fanastic guy, and I think I owe all my career to his guidance :)
SnapDragon	mishastassen: He'd just taken up coaching the year I came to University, and he really helped us out
SnapDragon	mishastassen: He was learning just as much as we were
tsalman	SnapDragon: cool. cormack was your coach :D
SnapDragon	mishastassen: Again, none of us really knew the skills that are basic today
felix_halim	SnapDragon: why do you think research paper problems are not suitable for contests?
SnapDragon	tsalman: Yep. :D
SnapDragon	felix_halim: Because the only people who solve them are those who've read the result before.
SnapDragon	felix_halim: You can't solve a research problem in a contest.
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Hello!
SnapDragon	Yo
felix_halim	SnapDragon: not until everybody knows the results (just like DP back then)? :)
SnapDragon	felix_halim: Right. Back then, if a Max Flow problem came up on a contest, nobody would have a chance of solving it.
SnapDragon	felix_halim: You can't derive Max Flow on your own in contest time. :)
SnapDragon	felix_halim: Mind you, new algorithms DO show up.
SnapDragon	felix_halim: But they're the kind that are possible to figure out, if you're smart.
SnapDragon	felix_halim: I don't know if you saw my Tunnel Revision problem on a past Finals
SnapDragon	felix_halim: That one was probably too close to a research paper problem
SnapDragon	felix_halim: Nobody solved it
SnapDragon	felix_halim: Nobody really came close :(
SnapDragon	felix_halim: (Though there are so many problems at the Finals these days that people might just not have had time to think about it)
SnapDragon	felix_halim: Heh, NOW it gets announced :P
jmpld40	yeah sorry about that
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Where did you learn algorithms or how?
jmpld40	tech difficulities :)
SnapDragon	Sarkin: Well, I took the usual Algorithms courses in University
SnapDragon	Sarkin: But really, it was from ACM practice
ilham	SnapDragon: Where did you learn to play games like ... that?
Sarkin	SnapDragon: When did you start programming And how old are you now?
SnapDragon	ilham: Heh, just played games all my life :P
SnapDragon	Sarkin: I'm 29, and probably started when I was 5 or 6 with BASIC
tsalman	Sarkin: he is 29 :)
ardiankp	haha, a lot of questions repeated now :P
SnapDragon	Sarkin: I didn't really start real programming until Grade 10 or so
SnapDragon	Sarkin: And even then it was still non-OO Pascal
ktuan	Did you achieve somethings in high-school ( like IOI ) ?
Sarkin	SnapDragon: 5 or 6 that's so early!
SnapDragon	ardiankp: I'm just surprised I haven't had to say "practice is everything" very much yet :)
SnapDragon	Sarkin: I hadn't exactly mastered control flow at that age ;)
mincer	SnapDragon: how much time one should train everyday to become red?
felixj	ktuan: no, he had never time to try that
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Yeah
mogers	SnapDragon: Hi. Do you think that TopCoder contests are a good way to train for acm regionals/finals? thanks
SnapDragon	ktuan: I competed in the IMO, but no, I didn't start computer contests until University
ilham	SnapDragon: So is practice everything?
maradonah	SnapDragon: What training plan would you suggest for novice and intermediate programmers for preparing for ACM?
SnapDragon	mincer: As much as you can stand. :) I'm able to focus a lot; when I practice, I really go overboard.
SnapDragon	mogers: TopCoder is a fantastic way to train for the ICPC
SnapDragon	mogers: Nothing really compares to solving problems in a contest environment
Sarkin	SnapDragon: When you learned algorithms you just practiced or you used some books or something if yes what's it's name?
Sunny_05	SnapDragon: wat advice wud u wanna giv to starters on topcoder ??
SnapDragon	mogers: And since TopCoder is less forgiving, you'll be much more accurate in your ICPC submissions
SnapDragon	ilham: Yep, practice is everything :)
mincer	SnapDragon: how do you improve your challenge skills? Do you train it for special?
SnapDragon	maradonah: I would suggest doing past Regionals in a contest environment (ie, sit down for 5 hours and compete)
litwin	What editor & font are u using ? :)
SnapDragon	maradonah: And compete on TopCoder, of course
SnapDragon	maradonah: Doing past UVA questions also helps
marcadian	SnapDragon: what's your favourite game ?
vinay.emani	SnapDragon: your DP solutions are like textbook for me.
SnapDragon	mincer: My challenge skills aren't that great :(
SnapDragon	mincer: That's one thing Petr really mastered that I never really did
mogers	SnapDragon: how about team practice? Did you often practice along your teamates?
SnapDragon	mincer: (part of it that I never ever "shotgun" challenge, even though it's often a good strategy)
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Is "Introduction To Algorithms" good?
comwizz14	SnapDragon: do you think that your coding and problem solving skills are entirely upto practice or is it due to you starting early as a lot red coders i see have good mathematical foundation participation in math olympiads,it seems a steep curve if you st
SnapDragon	marcadian: Tetris Attack :)
xhae	SnapDragon: Actually I think SRM is quite different from ICPC because I felt SRM problems are tend to easy-coding problems... so
xhae	SnapDragon: do you have any recommendation to practice such codings for ICPC?
SnapDragon	vinay.emani: Thanks. :) I've done so many, they tend to always come out the same way!
SnapDragon	mogers: Yes, we practiced 1 or 2 full contests a week
SnapDragon	mogers: It helped a LOT
SnapDragon	mogers: Although on Waterloo teams we were pretty independent, solving problems on our own
marcadian	SnapDragon: why you like that? what make you interesting?
SnapDragon	Sarkin: Yes, CLR is a great reference
SnapDragon	xhae: Actually, that used to be the case... but I'm not sure any more
mogers	SnapDragon: owo. we practice only once a month :P thank you :)
SnapDragon	xhae: TC problems have gotten quite brutal over the years
SnapDragon	xhae: Many equivalent in difficulty to hard ICPC problems
SnapDragon	comwizz14: The mathematical foundation definitely helps
SnapDragon	comwizz14: But the thing is, I never excelled in math the way I did in coding
piva	SnapDragon: In what moment did you notice you were getting really good at programming? And what do you think that made the diffrence?
xhae	hm- thanks :D
SnapDragon	comwizz14: I'd attribute that to a) practice, and b) the newness of the field
SnapDragon	comwizz14: (when nobody's very good, it's easier to rise to the top :)
mohamedafattah	SnapDragon: When playing as a team, what was your best strategy?
SnapDragon	piva: Well, I guess the first hint was when I qualified for Waterloo's B Team the first time I ever wrote a contest :)
SnapDragon	piva: But really, I didn't get what I'd consider "good" until my second ICPC Finals
cuihaochuan	SnapDragon: do you have a girlfriend?
SnapDragon	piva: There was a HUGE amount of practice between the two
SnapDragon	mohamedafattah: We were all smart people at Waterloo, so we were fine picking a problem and working independently to solve it
SnapDragon	mohamedafattah: If there was a conflict for the keyboard one of us would try to write out pseudocode on paper while waiting
SnapDragon	mohamedafattah: And we had to be really good at estimating how long it would take to code a solution
SnapDragon	mohamedafattah: That was definitely a skill we cultivated with practice
mohamedafattah	SnapDragon: what do you mean by fine picking?
SnapDragon	cuihaochuan: Yes, I had to kick her off Spore to come chat :)
mohamedafattah	SnapDragon: trying to know which problem is for which person?
black_hole	what do u suggest for improving coding speed ?
coder29	SnapDragon: whats ur basic stratedy while picking up the problems?
SnapDragon	mohamedafattah: I mean that we each just picked a problem and worked on it ourselves
SnapDragon	mohamedafattah: We didn't collaborate much unless we were in trouble and had to debug
mincer	SnapDragon: how did you combine trainings with the studying at the university? Did you have any problems with the "main" studying through sparing so much training on trainings?
SnapDragon	mohamedafattah: We would a) pick a problem, b) figure out how to solve it, c) estimate the time it will take to code, and then d) take the computer if our estimate was lower than the current user
mincer	SnapDragon: *so much time on trainings
SnapDragon	mincer: Not really. I did a lot of both. :)
mohamedafattah	SnapDragon: what if the problem went wrong and you got about 3-4 WAs?
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Did you participate in the IOI?
SnapDragon	mincer: And school was fairly easy compared to ACM contests
black_hole	SnapDragon:what do u suggest for improving coding speed ?
SnapDragon	Sarkin: No. Unfortunately, Canada was just getting an IOI team together my last year of high school.
Sarkin	SnapDragon: If yes did you get any medal?
mohamedafattah	SnapDragon: do you leave it at all / continue as you did effort in it / leave it and pick it up again?
ziliang	SnapDragon: if we perform well in algorithm contest, what kind of job do you think we can do better?
SnapDragon	Sarkin: And only from the Eastern Provinces, so I never had a chance.
ilham	SnapDragon: how fast do you type?
SnapDragon	black_hole: That's something that comes purely from practice.
ilham	SnapDragon: any chances beating Minilek in a typing game?
Sarkin	SnapDragon: When did you join TC?
ybgnahz	SnapDragon:how do you balance your study and the programming
SnapDragon	black_hole: When you've coded the same thing 10 times before, it comes out really fast and really smoothly. (And really elegantly and bug-free)
SnapDragon	ilham: I'm pretty sure Minilek would beat me :)
SnapDragon	ilham: But I'm one of the faster typists at TC, I think
SnapDragon	ilham: That's what I recall from past TCOs, anyway
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Yeah you wright in a flash!
ilham	SnapDragon: :)
SnapDragon	ilham: I'm held up by thinking speed when coding.
ilham	SnapDragon: hehehehe
ziliang	SnapDragon: if we perform well in algorithm contest, what kind of job do you think we can do better?
ilham	SnapDragon: aren't we all :D
SnapDragon	ziliang: Well, it'll make it easier to GET a software job. Don't know how much it will help you PERFORM it. :)
kcm1700	SnapDragon: How do you catch other's bug? <- What's your know-how of challenge?
SnapDragon	Sarkin: About 2 years into its existence, I think?
SnapDragon	kcm1700: I'm not actually very good at challenging
black_hole	SnapDragon: how do you choose problem , means u start with any prefernce order or somthing else?
SnapDragon	kcm1700: I tend to be surprised by the mistakes people make on problems
AjJi	SnapDragon: why did you choose working at google ? :)
kcm1700	SnapDragon: thanks a lot.
SnapDragon	kcm1700: Some good challengers know what to look for right away
mincer	SnapDragon: Did you have adequate private life (sparing time with friends, girlfriend, sports, etc) while doing a lot on both contests and university?
Sarkin	SnapDragon: First when you joined TC were you red from the start?How much time did it take you to become red?
SnapDragon	black_hole: In TC? Easy, Medium, Hard. I hope to solve them all or it's a bad contest :)
Mindhunter74	SnapDragon: What's the best way to learn DP?
SnapDragon	AjJi: Everybody was doing it :)
ybgnahz	SnapDragon:how to coding faster?
SnapDragon	AjJi: Just wish I'd done it sooner!
hamedvalizadeh	SnapDragon: What's your idea about string parsing problems?
SnapDragon	mincer: No, I didn't have much of a life
Sarkin	Mindhunter74: Practise!
SnapDragon	mincer: It was gaming, contests, school :)
shady_mokhtar	SnapDragon: can only being a good programmer in problem solving and algorithms get a nice job and what is it if yes ?????
SnapDragon	hamedvalizadeh: What about them? I usually just solve them heuristically.
ziliang	SnapDragon: that's what i'm thinking about. it's just something that one can show off. but no idea how much it can help us in work. unless you're doing some core technic in google,ms... do you think so?
SnapDragon	hamedvalizadeh: I seldom have to write a recursive parser or anything
AjJi	SnapDragon: why aren't you participating in marathon matchs ? :p
SnapDragon	shady_mokhtar: Yeah, doing well in TC will really help you get a good job :)
ziliang	SnapDragon: and btw, where are you working/studying?
black_hole	SnapDragon: no what u prefer easy,med.,hard r first analyze all three n then decide?
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Why don't participate in MMs?
AjJi	Sarkin: hehe, same question :p
SnapDragon	ziliang: I really don't find it's too applicable to work, honestly. :( Work coding is boring and tedious... that's why you get paid.
SnapDragon	ziliang: The interesting problems are very rare.
SnapDragon	ziliang: Working for Google
piva	SnapDragon: What do you think are the most important category of problems both for TC and ICPC? Do you try to practice more of one kind?
Sarkin	SnapDragon: Like Petr!
SnapDragon	black_hole: No, you have to solve them as you open them because the time ticks down.
ziliang	SnapDragon: you don't find it useful even when you work in Google?
SnapDragon	Sarkin: Lack of time. I did a few at the start.
comwizz14	SnapDragon: havent you thought of going into research in CS ? that shud not be boring :) ..
comwizz14	SnapDragon: with ur ability
SnapDragon	Sarkin: Yes, and Tomek, and John Dethridge, and Dan Wright, and many many other red TopCoders :)
Sarkin	SnapDragon: WHy don't you work for Microsoft? Isn't it possible?
SnapDragon	ziliang: I don't find the work at Google is very atypical.
SnapDragon	ziliang: It's the environment that's great.
SnapDragon	ziliang: The work's still boring. :)
SnapDragon	comwizz14: I did consider it. Unfortunately, I got burnt out after Undergrad, and left Grad school
SnapDragon	comwizz14: I still think I might've been happier in academia. Tough to say.
SnapDragon	Sarkin: Certainly considered it. I have friends who do.
CoreDumped	SnapDragon: which games do u play now?
SnapDragon	Sarkin: BTW, another thing I find really helps: learn to write "elegant" code
SnapDragon	Sarkin: That was a mantra back when I was first competing in the ACM and TC
SnapDragon	Sarkin: Your code should look like what it's doing
stone	SnapDragon: Why does Google hire one who thinks work is boring:)
Sarkin	SnapDragon: What do you mean elegent?
SnapDragon	Sarkin: If you can understand it at a glance, bugs become a lot easier to find
SnapDragon	Sarkin: And a lot rarer, because you won't even make as many mistakes writing it
progfool	hello evryone
progfool	hi SnapDragon
SnapDragon	stone: Maybe it wasn't smart of them :)
SnapDragon	Elegance is hard to define
AjJi	SnapDragon: what do you think is boring out there?
SnapDragon	AjJi: Any development you get paid for :)
AjJi	SnapDragon: hehe :)
black_hole	SnapDragon: why google's product(many) are in beta stage though it has best coders in the world?
mohamedafattah	SnapDragon: What is your job in Google? What project(s) are you responsible for?
SnapDragon	When I think of an algorithm in my head, the code should closely match what I'm doing in my head
SnapDragon	Even line by line
solafide	SnapDragon: Do you contribute to any open-source projects?
marcadian	SnapDragon: even if it's boring, u still can play game at google :)
jarrah	SnapDragon: what's the relationship like between tomek and your girlfriend?
SnapDragon	Nobody can write ugly code consistently
progfool	Hey SnapDragon....do you learn algorithms????
bucephalus	Tell us about you crazy puzzle solving. Puzzles that challenged you the most.
bucephalus	*your
SnapDragon	The best coders are very good at writing elegant code, which works the first time they compile because it's so "straightforward"
andrei-alpha	SnapDragon: how fast do you write ?
SnapDragon	solafide: No
SnapDragon	solafide: I'm not much of a Unix coder, to be honest :)
progfool	Should we try to learn algorithms!!!......
SnapDragon	progfool: Definitely.
SnapDragon	progfool: Take algorithms courses in University
SnapDragon	progfool: Read CLR
rahulgarg123	SnapDragon: So, did you actually took a stab at Grad School before joining google?
SnapDragon	progfool: The same kinds of algorithms come up ALL THE TIME at TC and ICPC
AjJi	SnapDragon: do you write some code on your sparetime? if yes, what codes ? :p (besides TC)
hamedvalizadeh	SnapDragon: What's the biggest project you have done ever?
SnapDragon	andrei-alpha: Probably 100 wpm or so? I never really measure it
SnapDragon	rahul1990gupta: Yeah, I did one year at Toronto
rahulgarg123	SnapDragon: theory,I presume?
black_hole	SnapDragon: ALL the algorithms from CLR must be mastered?
SnapDragon	AjJi: I do a lot of contest work in my spare time
andrei-alpha	SnapDragon: oo good :)
progfool	And what about the maths tht is involved..
SnapDragon	AjJi: I test-solve problems for UVA, various Regionals, the Finals
SnapDragon	AjJi: The Google Code Jam
AjJi	SnapDragon: ok :)
SnapDragon	AjJi: The IOI, sometimes
SnapDragon	AjJi: Lots :)
pSaiko	Do you smoke while coding? or do you have favourite drinks?
SnapDragon	hamedvalizadeh: Uh, on my own?
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: What do you think about solving problems from online judges
hamedvalizadeh	SnapDragon: yeah
SnapDragon	hamedvalizadeh: Probably a PC graphics Demo I coded back in high school.
progfool	SnapDragon: Actually whenever i submit solutions...it exceeds time limit...
SnapDragon	hamedvalizadeh: 80k or so of pure assembly. (That was really stupid, but fun. :)
progfool	SnapDragon: What should i do about that..
SnapDragon	black_hole: No, not even close.
samsam	Petr: are you there
seaking	what's the IOI??
CoreDumped	SnapDragon: heard you are a gamer. what are you favorite games?
SnapDragon	black_hole: There's really a standard set of easy-to-code well-known algorithms that are used in contests
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: Do u think OJ's are a better way to practice and learn algos or TC style competitions are better?
jarrah	seaking: international olympiad in informatics, only the best high school computer science competition in the world
SnapDragon	progfool: You need to learn how to analyze runtime complexity
SnapDragon	progfool: It's complicated, but CLR talks about that kind of thing a lot
seaking	jarrah: thanks :)
ACThread	SnapDragon: how to study algorithm
SnapDragon	progfool: In particular, you need to know the difference between exponential and polynomial runtime
progfool	SnapDragon: thank you so much
SnapDragon	CoreDumped: Tetris Attack :)
Nerwosolek	What's CLR?
progfool	SnapDragon: I jus started reading CLRS..
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: OJs?
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: Online judges
samsam	Petr: are there anything like inborn talent
progfool	SnapDragon: do you work or u r at university?
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: Oh. Competitions are always better, because you just don't get into that frame of mind unless it really "matters".
pankaj_k	yes
black_hole	SnapDragon: how to master bitmask used in dp?
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: However, contests don't run all the time. :)
pSaiko	SnapDragon: What are your habits while coding? Any special music, cigarettes, drinks?
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: You definitely need to practice a lot of OJ problems, I think
black_hole	SnapDragon: i find it hard
SnapDragon	progfool: I work at Google
progfool	SnapDragon: ohhh....gr8
mohamedazouz	fenak ya ahmedsad
pankaj_k	Petr: yes
SnapDragon	black_hole: Bitmasks are used in plenty of problems, not just DP
SnapDragon	black_hole: I think there are some good TC articles about it
mohamedazouz	fenak ya ahmedsadek
samshu	SnapDragon: Dont you think "Software Engineering" is a lot more than Programming??
progfool	SnapDragon: Actually i even find it really tough to think in terms of 0's and 1's as bit theory demands
SnapDragon	black_hole: There's nothing really complicated about bitmasks, but they do reduce the elegance of your code a little.
black_hole	SnapDragon: oh... thnx
SnapDragon	black_hole: I use them when necessary, but sometimes a vector<vector<int> > is better than a vector<int> of compressed bitmasks :)
samsam	SnapDragon: being in blue is enough to work at google or not...
maradonah	SnapDragon: what algorithms do u recommend for your ICPC algorithms library?
SnapDragon	samshu: Absolutely. TC skill may be correlated with SE skill, but it's definitely not all there is to it.
hamedvalizadeh	SnapDragon: Do you have another profession than programming?
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: did u take part in any of the iois ?
SnapDragon	samsam: Yeah, nothing wrong with being blue :)
piva	SnapDragon: Petr said he almost didn't do OJ. Do you think it depends on the person, or that we should try OJ problems?
SnapDragon	samsam: Honestly, having a high rating at TC just means you're good at ... solving TC problems
SnapDragon	samsam: In the real world it matters a lot less
SnapDragon	samsam: Lots of really great programmers and really smart people have tried TC and not done well :)
maradonah	SnapDragon: like me :)
SnapDragon	piva: Can't hurt to try. :)
SnapDragon	piva: More practice is always better.
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: why the name "SnapDragon"
DieIng	:)
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: No, Canada didn't really get organized until I was out of High School.
kphmd	why
piva	SnapDragon: But how do you choose the problems you are going to train with? Based on difficulty, or category?
SnapDragon	hamedvalizadeh: No, just programming.
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: oh
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: No real reason; I've had it for a long time. It's basically a pun, and I like it.
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: great!!!
progfool	SnapDragon: I am a beginner in algorithms.....where would you suggest me to start from??
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: And since I'm famous with it, I can't get rid of it :P
progfool	SnapDragon: only CLR or something else also?
pSaiko	SnapDragon: Do you suggest macros?
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: ha ha....there you go
samsam	SnapDragon: what rating will Ken thompson(unix developer) will attain if he is topcoding
pSaiko	SnapDragon: Do you suggest macros?
samshu	SnapDragon: I find that very few Algorithm toppers are playing MM's..
samsam	SnapDragon: :)
SnapDragon	progfool: CLR is good, I think. Work on math problems, too.
samshu	SnapDragon: Any reason behind it??
Nerwosolek	progfool: what's CLR?
mogers	SnapDragon: do you think that someone (like me) that works a lot on an interesting project, but tends to not work when faced with a boring project have chances to be hired by google?
SnapDragon	progfool: A solid math basis is really good for those times when you can't just use a standard algorithm.
kphmd	?
SnapDragon	samsam: Uh, no idea :)
SnapDragon	samshu: Really? venco was doing really well at them back at the start
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: Why is everybody so crazy about google
progfool	Nerwosolek: ITs Cormen,Book for algorithms....4 writers
SnapDragon	samshu: But it's similar to how there isn't much overlap between top TCers and top component developers
progfool	Nerwosolek: amazon.com u can search for it
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: i say ataryt your own google
SnapDragon	samshu: They're different skills and appeal to different people
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: start*
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: Is working in google fun or does it mean a lot of boring dirty work :P ?
SnapDragon	mogers: I guess so, I'm probably the same way :P
Nerwosolek	progfool: OK. I think I know it.
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: Heh, Google isn't quite the fun startup it used to be
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: But you do get to work with really smart people
progfool	SnapDragon: What kind of math problems...and where can i get those???
mogers	SnapDragon: good to hear that :)
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: And the environment and perks are great
kphmd	what about?
samsam	SnapDragon: you told in google you are coding the standard algorithms.....if it so what is the use of being in red...:)
pSaiko	SnapDragon: would you take a job at microsoft?
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: Boring dirty work mostly, same as anywhere :)
samsam	SnapDragon: any one can just do it...
SnapDragon	samsam: Well, it got me the job :)
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: ok...i guess a mind like you can do his own google :P
ACThread	SnapDragon: I am a beginner in algorithms.....where would you suggest me to start from??
SnapDragon	progfool: High School Olympiad problems are a good place to start.
samsam	SnapDragon: :)ofcourse you are right.....
samshu	SnapDragon: "Boring dirty work mostly"..i hope Larry is'nt somewhere around..
Lugera	SnapDragon: at what age did you start programming?
SnapDragon	pSaiko: Probably, if I wasn't already comfortable at Google :)
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: I don't know, you have to be pretty lucky to have a startup become the next Google, no matter how smart you are :)
SnapDragon	ACThread: Take a University Algorithms course, read CLR
hamedvalizadeh	SnapDragon: How many hours do you use computer during a day?
SnapDragon	ACThread: There are lots of good TopCoder articles, too
SnapDragon	ACThread: Covering standard contest algorithms
SnapDragon	hamedvalizadeh: Probably 10-12
SnapDragon	Lugera: 5 or 6?
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: luck comes with your hardwork and your power to dream big
SnapDragon	samshu: You're not Larry, are you???
samshu	SnapDragon: :D
pSaiko	Ishan: i asked if he would take a job at microsoft...
samsam	SnapDragon: why dont you try for Bell labs...:)
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: anyways...you are one gem of TC...
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: And luck comes with a great big heap of luck, too :()
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: Heh, thanks :)
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: whats ur age! ?
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: yup
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: Though my star has kind of set... heh
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: 29
wrick	SnapDragon: i noticed that you have a great challenge success rate. what does it take to be a good challenger? do you build cases before challenge ?
black_hole	SnapDragon: are u interested in Algorithms research ....?
{magneto}	SnapDragon: how well is one's performance in TC SRMs recognised around the world ? do you think they are as prestigious and weel known as ACM ICPC ?
SnapDragon	wrick: Actually, to be honest I don't think it's good to have a high challenge success rate
simplysuperb_kn	SnapDragon: Which books should be read for graph related problems?
VArt	SnapDragon: Do you use Linux or Windows?
wrick	SnapDragon: really? why?
SnapDragon	wrick: Petr has won many SRMs just by "shotgun" challenging, applying a tough test to people's solutions without even reading them
SnapDragon	wrick: It works well
SnapDragon	wrick: I'm always too wimpy to do it
SnapDragon	black_hole: Yeah, I love trying to come up with new algorithms :)
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: You i think spotlight sessions are good for novice like us but for you- whos facin it, it must be like an apple and 100s of shooter...good luck
wrick	SnapDragon: i know what you mean. i do that when i am in div2... div1 people are smart for me
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: i tried what u said Petr did n i lost all the points i dint hav !!!
binarywithme	hi
SnapDragon	{magneto}: Honestly, I wouldn't have the "fame" I do now if it weren't for TC. I think it's MORE prestigious than the Finals, really.
SnapDragon	{magneto}: Because two times at the Finals and you're out.
SnapDragon	{magneto}: Whereas if you're a target at TC, you're there for years
pSaiko	SnapDragon: do you optimize your code for performance after making sure its correct?
SnapDragon	raviupreti85: Heh, thanks :)
simplysuperb_kn	SnapDragon: Which books should be read for graph related problems?
binarywithme	SnapDragon: hello snapdradon
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: Well, it has to be a good challenge on a problem with a "twist" to it
samshu	SnapDragon: I was taking a Testing seminar in my firm last week.while i was talking on test cases i had you,Petr..etc in mind..The way you ppl think .
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: One good way to come up with a challenge case is if you find a bug in your own code
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: Remember it, and look for it in others' code
ACThread	SnapDragon: Thanks
SnapDragon	srivatsan_1991: And if you think it's really an easy bug to make, then try the shotgun challenging... but I assume no responsibility for lost points :)
srivatsan_1991	SnapDragon: lol
SnapDragon	pSaiko: No, I tend to write my code once.
SnapDragon	pSaiko: You learn to estimate how fast you need to write it from the start
SnapDragon	pSaiko: (There are exceptions of course)
samshu	SnapDragon: i told them the importance of your development skills for Testing a piece of code
pSaiko	SnapDragon: thx
mohamedafattah	SnapDragon: I always see your problems used in regionals / world finals, and they are wonderful. Why don't you write for topcoder?
SnapDragon	samshu: Again, I'm not really in Petr's league when it comes to challenge cases
simplysuperb_kn	SnapDragon: which company you work for SnapDragon?
SnapDragon	samshu: It's definitely an acquired skill, finding bugs in other people's code
innocentboy	simplysuperb_kn: Google.
mohamedafattah	simplysuperb_kn: Google
samsam	SnapDragon: why dont you register for SRM
raviupreti85	SnapDragon: you aint taking part in todays SRM
samsam	SnapDragon: only 4 mins left :)
SnapDragon	samshu: The best way to test code is to write it elegantly so it's obvious it's correct :)
bardek	SnapDragon: are you going to participate in this SRM ?
supernova	reviupreti85: I think he's registering for the high school one
SnapDragon	samshu: If it's a soup of "if"s and "goto"s, I don't care how much you've tested it, there's probably still a bug
muxecoid	SnapDragon: Can you name a few software projects you worked on?
wrick	maybe SnapDragon is the writer!
wrick	oh no!
MH35	Any Japanese here?
SnapDragon	I'm not doing the SRM today... too late for me
SnapDragon	simplysuperb_kn: Google
SnapDragon	muxecoid: Erm... famous ones? Not really
samshu	SnapDragon: Ah that's a good clue..
SnapDragon	muxecoid: I work on Ads Quality at Google :)
Danko	SnapDragon: How do you solve problems? :) Do you use some heuristic methods?
simplysuperb_kn	SnapDragon:Thanks!!
SnapDragon	muxecoid: Before that, I worked on a competitor for BLAST, in the Bioinformatics field
samsam	SnapDragon: just do let us how it goes
gautamverma	SnapDragon: what the best way to score in a SRM??
SnapDragon	Danko: I solve problems by writing the same code I did the last time I saw the problem. :)
MH35	To register or not to register?
SnapDragon	Danko: 80% of the problems I see are variations on ones I've solved many times before.
pSaiko	What was/is the hardest "genre" of problem you had/have to overcome?
miz-kmm	are there japanese???????????????
MH35	I'm very tired
SnapDragon	Danko: That's what practice does for you
simplysuperb_kn	SnapDragon: Can you please suggest us the book for graph problems?
pdallago	SnapDragon: is it? many of the top coders usually have an "if soup" approach when dealing with complicated problems... and it seems to work
SnapDragon	simplysuperb_kn: I don't know of a Graph problem-related book
samshu	SnapDragon: dont you think TC's sometimes hurting a persons Coding skill.Neat codes are a rarity in here..
superkinhluan	how long did it take you to practice in order to achieve that 80% familiarity?
SnapDragon	pdallago: No, I think the best coders find the clever way to make the code pretty
progfool	SnapDragon: If you have very less time left.....which algorithm would you go through....i mean which is the most widely algorithm appearing in contests
mozeda	SnapDragon: hello~!
SnapDragon	pdallago: Ok, it can still get a little complicated
progfool	SnapDragon: sorry for my english...
MH35	I retire today's SRM
SnapDragon	pdallago: But I think if you compare, say, Petr's code on a tricky detail-oriented problem with someone else's, you'll notice it has far fewer special cases and such
sahiltiwari	SnapDragon: In solving problems which part you think is most important.It is logical thinking or Implimentation
SnapDragon	pdallago: It's necessary for consistency, especially since TC is so unforgiving of mistakes
gaohaidong	Don't leave...
SnapDragon	samshu: I don't think TC HURTS a programmer's skill
pdallago	SnapDragon: ok, thanks
vexorian	SnapDragon: What is your favorite problem from last months' SRMs ?
SnapDragon	samshu: It does teach you how to write more elegant, bug-free code.
SnapDragon	vexorian: I haven't done an SRM in a month. :(
gautamverma	SnapDragon: what is a Bug Free code??
SnapDragon	vexorian: (And, regrettably, I don't have time these days to do all the TC problems as they come out)
jmpld40	okay folks let's wrap this up since the SRM is about to start
samshu	SnapDragon: true...but a neat code is very important for SQA!
ulzha	gautamverma: :D
cuihaochuan	SnapDragon: thanks
solafide	SnapDragon: Thanks for putting on this chat - many thanks for staying up late for us. It's been very enjoyable. Good luck on your target status! ;)
jmpld40	Thanks to SnapDragon for chatting with us this morning/evening/afternoon
felix_halim	SnapDragon: thanks
progfool	SnapDragon: All the best to you for further progrmming:)
SnapDragon	progfool: Dijkstra (Breadth-First Search) is probably one of the most common problem types
comwizz14	SnapDragon: thanks a lot
ACThread	kphmd: you are very well
jmpld40	the chat will be posted shortly on the website
samshu	jmpld40: evening here!!
SnapDragon	solafide: Thanks, hope I can hold on to it :)
jansonh	thanks all
gautamverma	SnapDragon: i think i m too late ...
SnapDragon	Good luck all
pSaiko	thanks man
ulzha	enjoy
chokudai	Good Luck All!!
progfool	SnapDragon: Thankyou for your advice and help
jmpld40	hope everyone learned something good so now good luck with the srm!
algoboy	SnapDragon: thank you
kphmd	ACThread: who are you
abhinavkulkarni	Thanks SnapDragon! Same to you!
SnapDragon	No problem, have fun :)