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Chat transcript from Specification Chat: Spotlight Session with
AssertionsOn
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| Handle | Comment |
| jmpld40 | Welcome to the chat everyone |
| RaulEnriqueSil | Hi all word |
| jmpld40 | Welcome to AssertionsOn as well |
| yoitsfrancis | is it starting? |
| jmpld40 | We'd like to keep this chat focused on Specification competitions and what they are all about |
| chownikhil | can any one explain what this is all about |
| AssertionsOn | Thanks everyone for joining us in todays chat. |
| [hitcher] | so.. what is it all about? |
| yoitsfrancis | hi all! |
| zhch12121 | e... |
| yoitsfrancis | its midnight in the philippines |
| zhch12121 | its midnight in china |
| yoitsfrancis | First of all, I saw your posts in the forums. Congratulations for representing the Specifications Spotlight Sessions. So here are my questions: |
| [hitcher] | yoitsfrancis: you from the philippines? |
| yoitsfrancis | Question #1: Lets say that I'm new to this type of track. I have a feeling that in order for someone to win in this contest, you must have some experience in doing Specifications or similar tasks in Software Engineering. Let's say that I don't have that |
| AssertionsOn | [hitcher]: Maininly, specification (and concept) competitions deal with looking at a very high level at a clients idea and coming up with a technical solution. |
| yoitsfrancis | I notice that there are no good Specifications deliverables for us to study unlike Design and Development that is available in the TC Catalog because of the obvious nature that this type of competition is client specific. |
| yoitsfrancis | Question #1a: Are there good books that you can train yourself to be good at this? Question #1b: Are there good websites or links that are worth studying for this type of competitions? |
| yoitsfrancis | Question #1c: Is there more good resource that you might share that I missed? |
| [hitcher] | AssertionsOn: oh. got nosebleed. |
| yoitsfrancis | [hitcher]: yup |
| [hitcher] | yoitsfrancis: kabayan :) |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Not necessarily. Any exp. in building applications will be helpful, especially web applications. |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: I mainly rely on past experiences for guiding my submissions, as well as my creativity. It helps a lot to think outside the box. |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Google and TopCoder are great references |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Also, by looking at what past winners have produced greatly helps. |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: Also, we have some resources on our wiki. They are not 100% up to date to the current specification challenges, but the content should still be helpful for the basics of what we are looking for. |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: Check this link: http://www.topcoder.com/wiki/display/tc/Application+Requirements+Specifications |
| yoitsfrancis | oh i see! |
| yoitsfrancis | thanks! |
| yoitsfrancis | Question #2: Let's say that I am equally good in Specifications, Architecture, Design, Development, Studio, Assembly and Testing. Is Specifications a track is really really really worthwhile pursuing? |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: For conceptualization, see here: http://www.topcoder.com/wiki/display/tc/Conceptualization+Competitions |
| yoitsfrancis | I know that this track is relavitely young compared to others but do you think money has already been made in Design and Development based on the vast number of components in the Catalog and you would recommend on shifting to Specifications? |
| yoitsfrancis | And may I know the reason why? |
| AssertionsOn | Plus, all, yo u have to remember that these challenges are not as technical as design and developement challenges, so you don't have to be too techincal. If you can explain your ideas in a straightforward way, you have a great chance of winning. |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: The specification track will have less trips to the TCO, but for every project we do we expect to have conceptualization, specification, and architecture work. |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: Realistically, though we do have a large catalog, some amount of component work may be necessary for most projects... so I wouldn't write those off yet. |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Yes. Just look at the last 2 months of competitions. There has been a ton of Concept/Spec challenges been put out. |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Some people don't have the tech background for those types of competitions, and these would allow them to be involved in the TC process, as well as gain experience, feedback, and potentially some cash. |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: Yes, indeed - we don't expect everyone from component competitions to be great at specification, and vice versa. |
| AdamSelene | that was @AssertionsOn, been a while since I messed with the arena chat interface =) |
| yoitsfrancis | AdamSelene: Yup, I understand |
| yoitsfrancis | Question #3: I saw fellow member's post in the forums and feel them that its hard to earn prize money at TopCoder. Let's say that I have a full time job, work 8-12 hours a day earning $400-$900 a month. |
| AssertionsOn | Exactly, I am not great at design and development competitions, but I love these competitions since I don't have to dive into all the technical aspects of an appllication. I can come up with some great ideas and present them in a meaningful way. |
| yoitsfrancis | (I love Software Engineering so if ever I land in Specifications that would be totally fine with me). Is devoting full time in Specifications the answer? If so, how would I make that shift from a full time job to a full time TopCoder competing member? |
| yoitsfrancis | (Well, if you personally ask me on the shift thing, that is really really tough, especially that you don't get enough rest so if you have a better technique in shifting, I am all ears). |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: Competing full time at TopCoder is an important personal choice - you need to weigh the factors involved. I don't think we can guarantee that any single type of competition will always have enough volume... |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Remember there are some full time design/devs at TopCoder who rely on it for their only income. For us 40hr/week guys, it can be tough to keep up with them. |
| yoitsfrancis | AssertionsOn: good for you then! |
| yoitsfrancis | AssertionsOn: you do the things you love! |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: we would love for that to be the case, but it is dependent on a lot of factors - client work volume, the overall economy, etc. |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: I personally work 40+ a week and have children, so it is semi-stressful. But when you win, it is so worth it. |
| yoitsfrancis | AssertionsOn: yeah i feel you on that one |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: I agree. Don't expect to put 1-2 hours into these compeititons. Usually, I put in about 10-20 per contest. |
| AssertionsOn | Plus, these competitions (as all of them) are very addictive. After my first one, I wanted to beat the other competitors so bad it kept me up at night trying to figure out how to beat them. |
| AssertionsOn | Cause with members like Mig-29, argolite, Ghostar, AleaActaEst, and others, it is both intimidating yet inspirational when you go against them and win. |
| yoitsfrancis | AssertionsOn: so, how does that feel? |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: What feeling are you referencing ? |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Well, it feels good to think you can be in the same sentence with them (wrt Spec/Concept competitions). They are all great at what they do, and you hope to achieve their level of work. |
| yoitsfrancis | Question #4: Let's say that my happiness can be simply defined as me having $100,000 every year in my pocket (Hey, I'm totally happy with SRMs, but as long as we humans have a civilization and society, I need the money!), is Specifications the track to |
| yoitsfrancis | go through compared to others? And may I know the reason why? |
| AssertionsOn | So, let me ask the members a question: What keeps you from participating in these competitions? |
| yoitsfrancis | guys, thats all the questions i have on my side |
| ivern | yoitsfrancis: have you considered trying a competition or two and seeing how it works for you? |
| Ghostar | The lack of a real straightforward scorecard keeps me from competing. |
| Ghostar | I like a little bit of structure to the review process |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: Are you saying it is it worth it, to me personally? |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: We would like all our competition tracks to be very profitable for our members. Given volume of work, we hope any track will be able to keep people happy. |
| AssertionsOn | yoitsfrancis: I think competiting in these is both fun and gives you great experience, even if you don't win. |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: I would recommend picking a track based on your aptitude more than anything else |
| AdamSelene | yoitsfrancis: I think that will give you the most money in the long run, all external factors being equal. |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: I agree with you here, about picking the right track for your personality and exp. |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: In your experience are problems more in the scorecard or in inexperienced reviewers? We'd like to fix both problems obviously |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: For me, I can develop and design components, but not at the speed some of the current ones do it. But I know I can push out some specifications really quick. |
| yoitsfrancis | AssertionsOn: answering your question, i have an affinity for a good design |
| Ghostar | I haven't actually gone through the review process in a spec. contest, but from what I saw in the scorecard, it was fairly subjective as to what the client liked |
| Ghostar | This is kind of intimidating, since it's hard to judge what the client is exactly looking for |
| Ghostar | The questions help, but it still can be confusing |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: (wrt Ghostar issues) These are being worked actively by TC . It just takes a little time to get those issues worked out. But I have also had some frustrations along the way myself. |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: Understood - so as a barrier to entry you expect clear scorecards and guidelines. |
| jmpld40 | Ghostar: Just so you are all aware, COncept and SPec comps are in the spotlight right now at TC and visit the threads or post here if you have ideas that should be on our radar |
| jmpld40 | Ghostar: and we have a team dedicated to reviewing the challenges so far, and the feedback, and will implement changes |
| Ghostar | That would help. I'm not sure I like the idea of having the client actively involved in the review process |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: Have you had a chance to look at the architecture scorecards that were posted? Would posting scorecards in that format help for these challenges? We didn't get much feedback on the arch cards. |
| Ghostar | I did look them over, but didn't have time to get too in depth with them |
| Ghostar | I think that posting the scorecards will help, and I know that is being worked on, from what I have seen in the forums |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: But, would a presentation like that help? Updating to have all guidelines, including scoring |
| Ghostar | I think so |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: "client in the review process" -> Unfortunately, this is going to keep happening (I think). They need to be involved to make sure their business needs are met at this high of a level. |
| Ghostar | I understand that, but it definitely makes the process more initimidating, and a little more chaotic |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: But they are getting members more involved in the review, so the comments/appeals/etc are getting extremely better. |
| AdamSelene | I think what we are moving towards is client review only at a high level during conceptualization. I think everyone agrees with Ghostar that we need accountability and regularity in more detailed review |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: Agreed |
| Ghostar | Asser |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: (Don't mess up my handle or you might get flagged for profanity ;) ) |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: It seems like Mig-29 is winning most of these. Do you have a strategy to beat him? |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: I'm new to the chat room :) |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: Yes I have a strategy to beat them, but I can't give that away unfortunately. Then I would have everyone else beating me, and that would not be fun. |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: Do you find that a lot of these competitions are similar enough in nature to pull together different pieces of past competitions? I do that quite a bit with architecture competitions, and it saves a bunch of time, and cuts down on mistakes |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: I figured :) |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: I would expect to see that sooner than later - especially with conceptualization - many clients for instance need social networking features |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: There are small instances of reusing past competition content, but not really. I would say about 90% of my submission is brand new information. That is one area I need to improve in. |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: That's kind of another barrier to entry, since there isn't a way (that I know of) to download past submissions |
| barbarab | Are there any good examples of past specification winners available? There are some great algo tutorials, but none for specifications or architecture that I can find. |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: I do think TC has posted sample competitions up in the forums and included them in the distrobutions, so if you follow that you should be fine. |
| AdamSelene | barbarab: We are working on providing more examples, but it is a tough issue as the output for these competitions is often very client specific |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: I like to be able to see all of them, not just a single sample. That way I can find ones that have similar goals to a new one posted. |
| AssertionsOn | barbarab: Not that I know of, to date. There is a sample set of deliverables, but I don't know if they are pubically available or not. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I know we posted a couple of architecture submissions in the wiki awhile back. I'm not sure if they are still there. They were for internal TC systems |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: I think that is fairly unlikely, again because of client concerns. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: That's true :( |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: yes, for internal projects I'm sure we will post them; I do not know that there has been more than one completed so far though |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: Agreed. I would like to see personally the differences between the Round 1 and Round 2 submissions, just to see how much difference there is. |
| AdamSelene | You brought up the round concept so I will jump on that... |
| AdamSelene | The round 1 submissions are NOT intended to be full submissions |
| AdamSelene | Has that been at all clear in recent competitions? |
| AdamSelene | The idea is that round 1 will flesh out use cases, and round 2 will provide the complete document. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: Aren't only the top 3 allowed to go on to round 2? |
| AdamSelene | I don't believe so, round 1 is not intended to winnow competition. |
| AdamSelene | It may have been tried that way in the past. |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: Nope, only those who submit for R1 can go to R2 |
| AdamSelene | The reasoning behind rounds is just that we have often had this situation: |
| AdamSelene | Client likes submission #1, and #2, and #3 |
| AdamSelene | not because of styling, or quality |
| AdamSelene | But because #2 has an idea that the other 2 missed |
| AdamSelene | and #3 integrates the uses cases more clearly |
| AdamSelene | but say #1 is the best written and won the contest. |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: But, remember that R1 submissions get screened so if you don't have everything filled out, you may not go to R2 |
| AdamSelene | To avoid this situation, round 1 should unify the core content of the submissions |
| AdamSelene | AssertionsOn: Yes, I believe that is just to try to ensure that all competitors in round 1 are actively participating |
| AdamSelene | AssertionsOn: and not just waiting for round 2 to decide whether to compete |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: Agreed. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I guess this is another concern I have with the competition. Doesn't that cut down on the competitive advantage I may have by coming up with good ideas? |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: Since those ideas may be shared with the rest of the competitors? |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: yes and no |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: Yes. This is one issue I have with the new round formats. |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: yes - it may slightly, but the intention is by paying round 1, you are compensated for the best ideas |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: the net intended effect of the challenge is to deliver a complete, quality business requirements document to the client |
| AdamSelene | Ghostar: the advantage should be the ability to do that, in the end |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: But, these prizes are sometimes too low to warrant putting out all the good ideas for others to latch onto. |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: I agree with that |
| AdamSelene | I am at a bit of a loss to answer that, thinking. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I know that TC's main concern is getting the client what it needs, but in this particular case, that goal and how it is achieved seems to go against the competition concept |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: And therefore results in the construction of your winning strategy..... |
| AdamSelene | OK, so we need two things |
| AdamSelene | 1) all the good ideas |
| AdamSelene | 2) a document that is written well and clearly that contains all of #1 |
| AdamSelene | we are certainly open to any format that arrives at that |
| AdamSelene | If we shift the balance of money, does that solve your concern with the round format? |
| AdamSelene | e.g. 50% round 1, 50% roudn 2? |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: In my mind, why not do it like Studio? The client picks a winner, and if they want ideas from other submissions, they pay for those as well, and then the overall winner goes through final fixes, adding in the things the client wants |
| AdamSelene | we can't go any further than that, because then people won't take the time to complete #2, will they? |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: Interesting idea..... |
| AdamSelene | But that's what we're doing with the two round format, basically |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: People like me and Mig-29 will still compete ;) |
| AdamSelene | in theoretically, a lot less time |
| cyGNUs | AdamSelene: then make payouts only after competing in round #2 |
| AdamSelene | I guess in your model you have potetntially more money in round 1 |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: True, but at the expense of not having a true "competition" |
| AdamSelene | no, it's still competitive imo, you're still conflating the two competitions |
| AdamSelene | #1 idea generation, #2 idea documentation |
| AdamSelene | I may come up with a great idea and not be able to write it down concisely |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: Why not break it up into two competitions then? |
| AdamSelene | that is the intention with the round format =) |
| AssertionsOn | Is there anyone new to specification challenges that need more information about how to compete, etc.? I know we are diving into challenge specifics, so if anyone has any more general questions, speak up. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: Yes, but you *have* to compete in the idea generation to compete in the documentation portion |
| AdamSelene | So you would be OK with open registration for rd 2? |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: Not really. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I guess so. I still am uncomfortable with the idea of rounds. I think it should be two distinct competitions, with separate reviews and payments for each |
| AdamSelene | Well, they are. |
| AdamSelene | Round 1: reviewed by client, paid |
| AdamSelene | Round 2: reviewed by members hopefully, paid |
| AdamSelene | This is exactly the intent behind the roudn format, with the minimum of overhead. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I still don't like it :) |
| AdamSelene | hehehe |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I want to be the winner of a full contest, not just 1/2 of one |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I want my competition history to say that I won this or that |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: They are working on this, I believe. |
| AdamSelene | I see. So if we presented it as clearly two separate competitions, you would like it better. |
| AdamSelene | Anyone else agree? AssertionsOn? |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I think so, but don't hold me to that :) |
| gt494 | AdamSelene: would reg of round 2 depend on participation in round 1? |
| barbarab | AdamSelene: Yes, two separate challenges will encourage and reward teamwork - especially if all good ideas are rewarded appropriately in the ideas competition. |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: I personally don't like that idea. |
| AdamSelene | gt494: I don't have any preference, Ghostar seems to like no, AssertionsOn, yes. |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: But, I would have to think about it some more. |
| Ghostar | gt494: I think that idea generation and documentation are two separate skills |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: I am just starting to like the new format myself. |
| Ghostar | gt494: Look at how many submissions were received for the AOL contest, which was purely idea generation |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: The senstations contest? |
| AdamSelene | That was much lower resolution than conceptualization would need to be though. |
| Ghostar | gt494: Yes |
| AdamSelene | (Believe me, I've read almost every submission) |
| AdamSelene | That was just a call for projects. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: True. |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: I think they are totally different, and you would not get 100+ submissions. |
| AdamSelene | Conceptualization needs to identify all core use cases. |
| AdamSelene | Personally I don't think that they are particularly disjoint because the same skill that lets you analyze what the client says and figure out what they really want will also guide you in the details of your submission. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I think it would definitely need to be not quite so free form, for obvious reasons, but I think that splitting the two couldn't hurt |
| AdamSelene | I think if you are the only one who thought of Use Case XXX, you've been thinking about it for that much longer and have a basic understanding of why the client wants it |
| AdamSelene | that your competitors lack. |
| AdamSelene | It certainly helps the competitors to be given your idea |
| AdamSelene | But I think you still have an edge over them. |
| AdamSelene | But I am not the one actually doing these competitions so I will tend to believe you guys more than what I dream up =) |
| barbarab | AdamSelene: It would probably improve round 2 submissions if you had an example or two of well written specs - possibly from TopCoder internal projects |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: I don't think there is any advantage once competitors have you solution. It is better for the client though. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: True. It's hard for me to have a different perspective on this, since I am pretty good at documenting ideas, but not so good at actual idea generation |
| AdamSelene | barbarab: Yes, we understand and will get examples clearly posted as soon as we are able. |
| Ghostar | AdamSelene: I guess I just feel that there is much more straight creativity in round 1 which may suite certain members more than round 2 |
| barbarab | AdamSelene: Thank you |
| AdamSelene | AssertionsOn: they won't have your solution though, all that should be shared after round 1 is the core use case. |
| AdamSelene | AssertionsOn: If I tell everyone that "Vote for comment" is a core use case |
| AdamSelene | AssertionsOn: Do I end up with TC's +/-? Slashdot's karma system? what? |
| AdamSelene | AssertionsOn: there is still a lot of room to distinguish yourself. |
| AdamSelene | (imo) |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: Disagreed. Past comments have been extremely detailed, and stated details that one document had and the others did not. |
| AdamSelene | AssertionsOn: OK, that is a problem and not the intent of the round system. |
| AssertionsOn | AdamSelene: All for the price of $50. |
| jmpld40 | As we start winding down this chat, does anyone else have any questions about how to compete or about the actual competition for AssertionsOn or the TC Admins? |
| jmpld40 | Specification Competition will be part of the TCO and all the details will be anounced next week.. |
| AssertionsOn | I want to personally thank everyone for joining the chat and asking questions. I hope to see you all in these competitions. |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: I have a feeling I will see you in Vegas :) |
| jmpld40 | however...the AOL/TC Sensations Developer Challenge Idea Generation Competition is over now so apps will need to be built! |
| AssertionsOn | Even if you don't win, they give you great experience for future endeavors. |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: I hope so. It would be an honor. |
| jmpld40 | These competitions are starting sooner than you think so i'm hoping you'll all give them a try |
| kalc | any one here??? |
| barbarab | AdamSelene: Good luck finding a system that rewards teamwork! |
| AssertionsOn | barbarab: LOL! |
| jmpld40 | A big thank you to AssertionsOn, AdamSelene and all others for participating in the chat. |
| AssertionsOn | Thank you TopCoder for asking me to join this chat. I had a great time discussing these competitions. |
| jmpld40 | I'll be posting the entire transcript as soon as I can and we can discuss things further in the accompnaying forum. |
| jmpld40 | Remember we will have 2 other chats, one next week with Ghostar about Architecture so don't miss them. |
| jmpld40 | Any other questions about Spec competitions? anyone? :) |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: I'll be at that chat, so get ready for some tough questions. |
| Ghostar | AssertionsOn: Bring it on :) |
| AssertionsOn | Ghostar: Consider yourself served ;) |
| AdamSelene | burn |
| lancord | hi ! |
| AssertionsOn | lancord: Hello |
| AdamSelene | lancord: Hi there, you're coming in on the tail end of the chat =) Do you have any questions about Concept/Spec challenges? |
| lancord | yeah |
| lancord | jus in short plzz tell me wat in specific i nee dto know for design and ev. |
| lancord | i mean a;lgo is not making me money |
| lancord | thr ? |
| AssertionsOn | lancord: High level system use cases and good documentation/idea skills |
| AdamSelene | There are some tutorials and other information on our wiki: http://www.topcoder.com/wiki/display/tc/Getting+Started+in+Component+Design+Competitions |
| AdamSelene | http://www.topcoder.com/wiki/display/tc/How+to+Compete+in+Component+Development+Competitions |
| AssertionsOn | lancord: I would chekc out the wiki page AdamSelene put up |
| AssertionsOn | lancord: it is very helpful in giving a brief intro to these new competition types |
| AdamSelene | If you are interested in Conceptualization, see http://www.topcoder.com/wiki/display/tc/TopCoder+Conceptualization+Contests |
| lancord | okay.......i and how much time will it take to get good in these things |
| lancord | like if u i devote 5-6 hrs daily |
| AssertionsOn | lancord: I personally put in about 10 hrs a day on challenges, if not more. |
| AdamSelene | If you can spend that much time per day, I would expect you to start seeing results within 3 to 4 competitions. Every competition should give you feedback on how well you are doing, and where you need to improve. |
| jmpld40 | we'll also have a chat about design and dev right here on wed. feb 11 at 11:00 a.m. EST |
| lancord | okay hmmm......thanks |
| lancord | okay |
| lancord | thanks for the advices |
| AssertionsOn | lancord: No prob. also check out the forums for future discussions about these comp. |
| jmpld40 | read more here: http://www.topcoder.com/news/2009/01/27/new-spotlight-sessions-at-topcoder/ |
| lancord | k |
| jmpld40 | thanks again everyone and hope to see you next week! |
| AssertionsOn | Thanks everyone! |
| AdamSelene | Thanks everyone, feel free to email me at geldridge@topcoder.com if you have more questions. |
| AdamSelene | Bye! |
