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| citigroup1 | we just arrived. apologize - thanks to everyone for attending. we are all members of the derivative trading strategy group. we build very very high performance real time systems to trade electronic options |
| mike | citigroup1: hello, no problem |
| TAG | citigroup1: ;-)) Welcome |
| mike | citigroup1: we'll let everyone know that you are here |
| nicka81 | revtekniques: Hello John! |
| gt494 | Who has the first question for citigroup? |
| citigroup1 | we are specifically looking to increase the size of our group with people of the top top caliber. we are a relatively small group that is designing the real time trading algotithms that automatically trade equity options. |
| viktoras | hey guys, I've heard that GS have their own programming language for quants. what about you? |
| TAG | citigroup1: Can you discusss job functions / roles at your group ? |
| haha | HI guys |
| haha | Where is citigroup? |
| haha | All over the US? |
| citigroup1 | we are all simultaneously designing trading strategies and building the systems that support them. Are current system uses 100,000 updates of input data per second and runs on over 150 computers |
| drsammyb | Are you hiring actuaries |
| haha | citigroup1: Shall we move to the east coast for working for citigroup? |
| TAG | haha: I think it's NY, Manhatten .. or NJ |
| TAG | haha: not sure |
| citigroup1 | all our jobs are in manhattan |
| Larry | citigroup1: what do you expect from us in therms of pure algorithms? |
| citigroup1 | we are on a massive trading floor the size of a football field. |
| nhzp339 | citigroup1: Does it mean you only hire people living there now? |
| Larry | citigroup1: like, what distinguish this job than the many other financial ones? |
| nicka81 | citigroup1: could you elaborate on designing trading strategies? are you trying to make automatic market predictions? |
| citigroup1 | we care more about algorithm ability - finance knowledge is not terribly important . The math, logic, and algorithm requirement is most important. |
| ruGlory | ci do you have free food? |
| citigroup2 | free food for thought? :-) |
| BillyBob | Good response :) |
| digitalmpu | citigroup2: What accroding to you, is the prospect of non CS students in the industry? |
| ruGlory | ups sorry I am not familiar with interface |
| TAG | citigroup2: What Job roles do you search for ? Researcher / Developer / Testing ? |
| Larry | citigroup1: well, right now, I'm working for a hedge fund, so I guess I'm asking.. what's special about your job positions? |
| digitalmpu | citigroup2: Developer / Researcher - either |
| ruGlory | actually I am working for financial company so I wonder is it sort of standard for the industry |
| citigroup1 | we dont have free food... hopefully the algorithms make enough that we can buy our own with ease ;) |
| amirshim | We currently have many positions available... everything from the (uninteresting) connectivity positions to quants. |
| citigroup2 | about roles: we are looking for a mixture of all these. nowadays it becomes tricky to be a researcher without being a developer at the same time |
| ruGlory | Aren't you moving towards offshore? |
| Larry | how is job security? |
| citigroup2 | no, we aren't moving offshore - we are based in nyc |
| aksaharan | What are the main attributes you look in a developer/researcher? does he need to belong to particular background? |
| travlinscotty | what sort of working conditions do you provide for your developers? |
| citigroup2 | good people usually have good job security. finding good people is difficult |
| citigroup1 | the difference is that the scale and complexity of the developemnt at a typical hedge fund does not scale to derivatives. |
| citigroup1 | Most hedge funds (lets assume stat arb) have to trade a few thousand stocks. |
| citigroup1 | the algorithms are complex but the infrastructure is less complex. we trade 500,000 options and have many more variables to deal with. |
| citigroup1 | most firms can not afford to trade high frequency options. it is MUCH more costly to build such a system. The problem is very nonlinear and requires much more calibtation |
| amirshim | Job security in a large company is very strong... although we are locates in nyc, we have positions in every part of the world. |
| NotImplemented | citigroup1: do you need algorithms to work with portfolios? |
| digitalmpu | citigroup1: What do you think about employing people that are not CS majors? |
| airtifa | if somebody won money, how he'll receive it? |
| ruGlory | How about Phila? Do you have position(s) here? |
| citigroup1 | the key with job security is that developing the algorithms and systems for these systems is the cutting edge. anything on the cutting edge has good job security almost by definition. |
| AdminBrett | sorry if this was asked, but what are the salary ranges on the jobs typically being offered |
| AdminBrett | How high will they scale with ability? |
| citigroup2 | we aren't specifically looking for CS majors |
| marcoloco | so your goal is to build strong programming team of your own, rather than using contractors project-basis? |
| drsammyb | Are you guys recruiting for only the corporate and investment banking division? |
| TAG | marcoloco: sure yea ;-) Imagine your contractors wrote a program to automaticaly buy wrong stocks ;-) |
| citigroup2 | doing it project-based does not make sense. you have to build your own system - if you want to tune it, maintain it etc |
| nhzp339 | citigroup2: Do you hire no-US citizen? |
| citigroup1 | salary is very competive. most of wall street is on bonus meaning that the profitability of the systems and the group drives everything |
| citigroup1 | we dont lose people on compensation and career growth |
| amirshim | admins: is the prize money distributed by you guys? |
| TAG | citigroup2: What technology your system is bases ? |
| digitalmpu | citigroup2: Then you mean the students for example Electronics major can get the same job as a CS major |
| AdminBrett | citigroup1: I imagine that you may have proprietary algorithms and such, which would lend things more to in house development |
| harvey6ft | the prize money is distribuged by Topcoder |
| digitalmpu | citigroup2: Then what is the required qualification |
| citigroup2 | US citizenship is not a requirement. work authorization obviously is - but if you're a student, we could make one for you |
| Larry | citigroup1: how is the compensation package (with bonuses and stuff) competitive with say, a hedge fund? |
| TheFaxman | amirshim: yes |
| TAG | citigroup2: H1B ? |
| TheFaxman | amirshim: we handle all the distrobution |
| citigroup2 | H1B is good, yes |
| amirshim | admins: Can you answer that question to the public. |
| TAG | citigroup2: Do you sponsor it or handle moves only ? |
| citigroup2 | qualifications aren't cast in stone. but we are looking at 3 areas: CS, math, finance - in various proportions |
| tootooliu | where is your group located at? NYC? |
| jmpld40 | TopCoder will distribute prize money |
| viktoras | citigroup1: how long typically people stay in citigroup in the positions you are considering? 3 years? 4 years? |
| ruGlory | Do you use middleware if any? |
| amirshim | our technology is hybrid, based on both bought and in-house developed code. |
| citigroup1 | we are recruiting for top notch technology in derivatives specifically but we will internally distribute all top notch resumes to groups looking for cutting edge algorithm development. |
| citigroup1 | We also have a lot of high performance systems for exotic options pricing. |
| citigroup2 | of course, we do sponsor H1B. we are a big corporation |
| AdminBrett | citigroup2: suppose someone is well trained in CS and Math, what would you recommend as to beefing up their finance background? |
| TAG | amirshim: What about languages used ? Any details .. |
| digitalmpu | citigroup2: What about people from electronics background with a good knowledge in soft development? |
| Larry | AdminBrett: there's a good textbook on derivative pricing |
| AdminBrett | Larry: hmm, I would be interested if you have a link |
| cattalur | citigroup2: If we are interested in the position, is it enough if we apply through top coder website? or do we need to send u our resume? |
| amirshim | we use both home-grown middleware and some external middleware to connect to the different systems. |
| Larry | also: http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~skiena/691/ |
| citigroup1 | while we are a 'big company' we are a small group. this actually gives an optimal blend of big and small. on a daily basis - you at most interact with a group of 30-50 key people. we have the benefit of a small effort with the resources of a big compa |
| Larry | AdminBrett: also: http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~skiena/691/ |
| citigroup2 | finance knowledge is not a must. in fact, it is the least important of the 3. |
| Larry | AdminBrett: the book is listed there |
| aksaharan | citigroup2: Do you also onsider people with out financial industry background? |
| ruGlory | CORBA to connect to exchanges? |
| AdminBrett | Larry: Thank you |
| AdminBrett | Larry: I may also take a look if they have anything online at NYU |
| AdminBrett | Larry: I know they have a masters program in mathematical finance |
| citigroup1 | amir was a key desiger of our middleware. the performance requirements of our middleware is too high for off the shelf product |
| amirshim | We develop mostly in c++ and csharp |
| shuvovse | citigroup1: Do you have positions in the D.C. area? |
| citigroup2 | to my knowledge only one options exchange uses CORBA |
| citigroup1 | no. we are only in manhattan |
| Larry | AdminBrett: it's nothing too difficult anyhow, coming from a math/cs background |
| marcoloco | is your software dev team just one department in citigroup or is it a separate company |
| citigroup1 | the message connection layer is the least important. most of that is abstracted by internal apis |
| AdminBrett | citigroup1: suppose someone is interested in these positions |
| AdminBrett | citigroup1: what is the best means to go about applying? |
| citigroup1 | there is a link on the topcoder site that you can post interest in our positions |
| citigroup2 | we are not a separate company. we are part of the Global Markets division of Citi |
| smartgirl | citigroup1: how many software engineerers are needed in the near future? thanks |
| AdminBrett | citigroup1: thanks |
| mike | anone interested in appyling can visit this link: http://www.topcoder.com/tc?module=Static&d1=contracting&d2=citigroup |
| citigroup1 | we are looking for 5 immediately. but we have enough people at citi looking for top people that limits are not important |
| jOhnson24 | mike: cheers mate |
| citigroup2 | about beefing up on finance - reading a good book is usually helpful |
| ruGlory | nyc not an option :( |
| smartgirl | citigroup1: thanks! |
| AdminBrett | Larry: that looks like a great link, thanks |
| Larry | AdminBrett: ya, I was the pseudo-TA for that course a year or so ago =) |
| harvey6ft | Will Citigroup consider candidates right out of school? |
| citigroup1 | yes. we want top notch - regardless of experience. |
| citigroup2 | we do like people right out of school |
| travlinscotty | what sort of work space do you give your developers? Cubes? Open plan? Offices with doors that close? |
| Larry | citigroup1: how well do you compensate in respect to experience? how about bonuses? |
| citigroup2 | we sit on the trading floor |
| fagiani | what are the skills necessary to be a candidate at Citigroup? |
| Larry | ya, and what is the culture in citigroup1? casual? business? |
| AdminBrett | citigroup1: I expect many members here to be very skilled in both math and coding. You already mentioned algorithm design for trading software. Are there any other positions available to them? |
| citigroup2 | business casual :-) |
| rampup | Are the jobs WorkFromHome type or Onsite? |
| citigroup1 | the main thing i think you will find with derivatives is that the problem is probably the most complex statistical problem around with more data than you can imagine |
| citigroup2 | onsite |
| digitalmpu | citigroup2: For recruiting fresh people, which is more important to you - academic result, extra-curricular activities, previous experience ? |
| ruGlory | sit on trading floor and no free food? unbeliavable :) |
| citigroup1 | it is an optimal problem that combines math, algorithms, and high performance computing. |
| TAG | citigroup1: What are work-hours ? Are they same as trading one or different ? |
| rampup | citi |
| citigroup1 | our biggest criterea is that you should be the best at what you have done. we are flexible in how we mesasure that and what we access |
| ruGlory | I think even citadel has free food ;) |
| elizarov | Where are you physically located? |
| revtekniques | elizarov: nyc |
| rampup | citigroup1: Are the jobs WorkFromHome type or Onsite? |
| citigroup2 | experience is probably more valuable than a PhD - but we do have PhDs - e.g. myself |
| jOhnson24 | citigroup1: where is citigroup based? |
| amirshim | Everything is onsite. |
| citigroup1 | we work a lot. we work flexible hours but because we like the problem and want to solve different sub problems - the hours are long. some people are moning people - they come in early |
| elizarov | What derivatives you work with? |
| TAG | jOhnson24: Manhatten, NY .. |
| AdminBrett | citigroup2: sorry if you said it already, but what do you do? |
| citigroup1 | others are night owls... we are flexible |
| jOhnson24 | citigroup1: don,t you have branches in the UK? |
| citigroup2 | oh yes, we have a large group in London |
| citigroup1 | we do a combination of prop algorithm development, strategy backtesting, datamining, and system developemnt to support this. |
| jOhnson24 | TAG: cheers |
| digitalmpu | citigroup2: How much importance do you pay in performance of programming contests like TopCoder & ACM ICPC? |
| citigroup2 | well, this is our first time with TopCoder |
| citigroup1 | We also have a lot of people that focus more just on infrastructure. Not all the positions require as much pure math. all positions require really smart people |
| AdminBrett | citigroup2: Also, if you don't mind, what is your PhD in? |
| jOhnson24 | citigroup1: can i apply for a place her ein the uk |
| TAG | citigroup1: Can you clarify your words about infrastructure ? |
| theMadhouse | citigroup1: Are you willing to sponsor visas? |
| citigroup2 | mine is in mathematical physics (don't try this at home...) |
| fagiani | citigroup1: Would you sponsor a foreign candidate? |
| citigroup1 | we want to find people who will push the edge of boundries of what they do;. these people are often found in topcoder type challenges. |
| AdminBrett | citigroup2: Interesting. So with your credentials, what position did you apply for? |
| jOhnson24 | citigroup2: lol |
| marcoloco | btw I can see your group's building in Carnary Wharf, London, just right now from the window :) |
| citigroup1 | less than half the group has phd's. i have 3 undergrad degrees in 3 years. degree is not as important as skills |
| citigroup2 | quant + developer + online chatter |
| citigroup1 | we also do have potential positions in london. if you are in london, hong kong, or sydney - please apply! |
| citigroup1 | our derivative systems have developement in each area |
| elizarov | any plans to do more outsourcing or opening more development centers in other cities/countries? |
| Larry | citigroup1: what if we're in NY, but want to apply to HK? =) |
| AdminBrett | citigroup2: This is probably a silly question, but what do quants typically do at Citigroup? |
| fagiani | citigroup1: How about other countrie's canditates? Are you willing to sponsor? |
| amirshim | we develop miffleware that can push upwards 300,000 messages per second (market data, eg. prices), we are constantly refining it... load balancing, routing, etc. We need lots of smart people to work on such problems. |
| citigroup2 | not sure how outsourcing will work for what we do - i am sceptical |
| citigroup1 | not for top tier type positions. citi outsources credit card payment systems. not propritary risk and trading system design |
| Krzysan | Do you have internships? |
| drsammyb | Naive Question: Why waste your time recruiting computer programmers when you should be recruiting financial and mathematics wizards? |
| citigroup2 | yes. we have 2 interns right now |
| jOhnson24 | elizarov: lol |
| TAG | amirshim: What do you think about quality of your codebase ? Is it strict or in in chaos ? |
| AdminBrett | drsammyb: Have you met some of our members? Plenty of math wizards abound. |
| drsammyb | (as I said, it was naive :-) ) |
| AdminBrett | drsammyb: hehe |
| citigroup1 | math and finance wizards are less valuable than smart 'engineers'. We dont need peoiple to write equations. we dont even price simple options with closed form solutions |
| jOhnson24 | drsammyb: i thought programmers are supposed to be mathematical wizards |
| citigroup2 | we don't need math wizards - most math in our case is not too hard |
| elizarov | Btw, we already do write software for citigroup. And yes, I have 5 years options experiences, and our software easily handles 300k+ messages per seconds (we know what optons quotes mean ;) |
| Ryan | hmm... most mathematicians don't "write equations" |
| elizarov | So I can perfrectly understand why you need the best people with contest experince. We employ exactly the same type ;) |
| batman7 | How are the citi guys todas |
| fagiani | citigroup1: Are you planning to hire people from other countries or only citizens from the countries you have offices? |
| elizarov | Fortunately, they can still be found in abundance in Russia :) |
| citigroup1 | agreed on mathmeticians.. what we have found is that pure mathmeticians often cant write the algorthms of the complexity we need. the math is not as hard as the data challenge |
| jOhnson24 | citigroup1: hello? |
| sidhuagarwal | citigroup1: are u planning to recruit people from india |
| citigroup1 | real time analysis is not an easy problem |
| SoberMonkey | Would you consider telecommuters? |
| Softwalker | admins: do you make the chat logs available on your site somewhere for these special chats? |
| TAG | citigroup1: what about special skills like performance optimization / system tuning etc.. ? Are you not looking for thouse ? |
| citigroup2 | no telecommuting, unfortunately |
| revtekniques | if you are interested in applying with CitiGroup, please apply at the following link |
| revtekniques | http://www.topcoder.com/tc?module=Static&d1=contracting&d2=citigroup |
| citigroup1 | our positions are all in NY. We do have other groups that need top people in London, Hong Kong, and Sydney, Tokyo |
| ruGlory | elizarov: do you mean they have to type that 300 000 per sec manually? 8o( |
| elizarov | That why I was asking about outsourcing.It is a good way to tap into international potential (if you've looked into results of the recent ACM ICPCs you know what I mean) |
| rajaag | citigroup1: are there any part-time positions as i'm a student but wish to work |
| TheFaxman | Softwalker: we haven't in the past but probbably could if there was enough demand |
| elizarov | ruGlory: fortunately not :) They have autoquoting engines. |
| ruGlory | elizarov: do you mean they have to type that 300000 per sec manually? 8oP |
| Soultaker | hi all |
| citigroup2 | we don't have part-time positions - but we do offer interships |
| TAG | elizarov: ICPC does not mean anything .. Most of students in USA and other countries start to work early instead of competing in contests .. |
| Softwalker | admins: Thanks, I think it would be nice |
| citigroup1 | agreed on smart people in india. the problem is we dont know what we need to build. we are writing the algorithm as we backtest the strategy as we build the software |
| citigroup1 | it is hard to break a probklem up - even if you have a top developer in the next building. our group does not distinguish between qants and developers for this reason |
| ruGlory | elizarov: but I think such contest test of how quickly you can type |
| jOhnson24 | citigroup1: its called XP |
| azimi | Hi |
| elizarov | TAG: That's true. It is also true, that almost any student in USA learns to program only in university, which is too late to develop exceptional skill |
| bitfiddler | citigroup1: I've spent a number of years devoloping historical analysis techniques using TradeStation Technology. Is this similar to what you're looking for? |
| rajneesh_bajaj | what type of derivatives you intend to include? Does Citigroup has own risk evaluation model or do they use std like montecarlo,etc |
| rajaag | citigroup1: can you give me a link about internships at citigroup? |
| citigroup2 | monte carlo is everywhere. we do it too |
| TAG | elizarov: that's true that most of xUSSR does not provide any real skills anymore due to overall decrease of education level .. If you have tried to hire some people recently - you can understand that I'm talking about |
| AdminBrett | elizarov: that isn't true necessarily |
| AdminBrett | elizarov: I think many take the AP exams in High School |
| aksaharan | Hwhat other kind of simulation models do you use? |
| citigroup1 | tradestation is imore the backtest portion. the scale of the problem is much more complicated with options. it is a pretty big leap[p in complexity |
| sidhuagarwal | citigroup1: how much rating is required to get a job |
| jOhnson24 | elizarov: true, but also most of us learn math early but it does not warrant everyone wil be expceptional in math |
| amirshim | all jobs positions and internships: http://www.topcoder.com/tc?module=Static&d1=contracting&d2=citigroup |
| elizarov | TAG: education is a problem only recently. Fortunately, we are not yet feeling those effects too much (but will soon). Yes, I do hire people on regular basis in Russia |
| ruGlory | TAG: maybe because you are just late? |
| citigroup1 | we have no 'rating' requirement. we want people who can demonstrate they like really high end problems. how that is determined is different for each person |
| IvanRomanov | TAG: ??, ?????? ????? |
| rajneesh_bajaj | is backtest per day/week/month/year .... I believ you would store/need a lot of data |
| sidhuagarwal | citigroup1: i am right now doin my b.tech from india , is there any scope of getting job in ur company |
| gt494 | citigroup1: what is the biggest disappointment when you interview candidates? |
| citigroup2 | backtest depends on the problem - can be days, can be seconds and higher |
| drsammyb | Have any of your programs found any arbitrage situations? :-) |
| TAG | elizarov: yep .. recently .. most of current hires are expirienced and 30+ people switching over companies .. no good new hires .. |
| citigroup1 | question for the group. we view finance problems as the most interesting problems out there. the perception is that people want to goto pure tech jobs. Is there a bias against finance that can be overcome to attract the best? |
| citigroup2 | programs by themselves don't do anything... |
| elizarov | citigroup2: do you do any back-testing based on historical option quotes (taking real historical quotes tick-by-tick)? |
| jOhnson24 | citigroup1: good question |
| ruGlory | citigroup2: without free food? |
| citigroup1 | there are a lot of tech jobs on wall street that are boring. we think we are nowhere close to these positions. curious if they give the business a bad perception |
| rajneesh_bajaj | not at all ...it is very interesting, it is all about money honey |
| citigroup1 | yes. we look at real time options data |
| amirshim | The biggest dissapointment when interviewing candidates is people that are not motivated. People have diverse expertise, and we can usually fit people in one place or another, but not if they are not motivated. |
| TAG | citigroup1: pure-tech ? Have you ever seen this ? |
| v_ralev | citigroup1: are you interested in AI based stock dealing? |
| citigroup2 | yes, for certain things we do look at tick data - again, depends on the problem |
| elizarov | TAG: You have to have good university connections to hire brigh "fresh" people. It's becoming harder to hire them in an "open" way. |
| TAG | elizarov: that's exactly that I'm talking about .. |
| bitfiddler | citigroup1: From many programmers point of view, finance is all about leverage and driven by greed. Many high level thinkers might shy away from that... |
| derelikt | citigroup1: it's probably due to people's (at least my) ignorance of the financial world |
| citigroup2 | i am sceptical of "pure" AI |
| meragrin | amirshim: How do you determine if a person is motivated? |
| elizarov | citigroup1: Interesting. Do you write custom data-storage solutions, too? Or do you use off-the-shelf databases to store that information? |
| citigroup1 | our systems approach AI. I hate the term AI... i prefer expert systems... it is very complex when you see how everything intrarelates |
| derelikt | citigroup1: as an example of ignorance, I've never thought about the interesting problems in analyzing financial data |
| auror | I think science people mostly don't have an interest on financial world.. it's "uncertainty" is not something to be expected from a pure science :-) |
| sidhuagarwal | sidhuagarwal: i am right now doing my b.tech in india , is there any scope og gettin a job in ur company |
| aksaharan | you can find a very good book called "FIASCO" on that subject.. |
| derelikt | auror: unless you've seen the movie Pi |
| citigroup1 | i think you will find that we people motivated by the 'greed of finance' dont do well... the people motivated because it is the most interesting problem thrive |
| Ryan | elizarov: so you have to be connected and open? Just like a good top space |
| citigroup2 | databases - depends on performance requirements. e.g. for low frequency we use std DBs. for high-frequency something more exotic |
| auror | I though expert systems are a branch of AI science.. mm... |
| citigroup1 | it is like counting cards or playing poker... 'money' is the result of whether your algorithm works... |
| Enogipe | Well, the term "AI" is often misleading. |
| amirshim | meragrin: it's hard to determine if a person is motivated, but it is very easy to see if they are NOT. Some people close up when they are given challenges, so open up. |
| rajneesh_bajaj | finance these days is very statistical and demands the best in technology ...we need better selling |
| v_ralev | citigroup1: are there real expert systems (AI) working there and actually buying and selling stuff? |
| Enogipe | Things that fit under AI often shouldn't be associated with 'intelligence'. |
| elizarov | citigropu2: "more exotic" is something you develop in-house or still buy? Just curios if you need people who can really write this kind of things. |
| citigroup1 | agreed on AI... i just hate that AI solutions never tend to work because they try to overfit problems |
| citigroup2 | yes, yes - we do need people who can build exotic stuff |
| citigroup1 | nothing we build can be bought |
| sidhuagarwal | citigroup2: do u need good mathematicians |
| elizarov | citigroup1: then topcoder is really a good place to look for people. |
| citigroup2 | we don't need "abstract" mathematicians - if that's what you mean. we are more focused on the applied side of things. good math background is of great help, though |
| elizarov | citigroup1: but I assure you that there are some companies that can (and do) build those things and sometimes you might still consider buying (our outsourcing) this kind of solutions |
| citigroup1 | we will see ;) we tend to hate resumes from headhunters... they are often rehashed people who failed on wall street. we would rather find people who want to learn our problem |
| Ryan | They need good chemists |
| elizarov | citigroup1: your hiring problem is that you are a financial institution in the first place. |
| Ryan | because chemists have all the solutions |
| citigroup1 | yes. we buy components... our database is based on KDB (www.kx.com) we buy components when iti is not our speciality.... to not do so would be crazy... we write inhouse anything core to our business |
| czar | alchemists |
| citigroup2 | yes, sometimes buying makes more sense. you don't want to get consumed with building infrastructure. you have to be pragmatic about it |
| elizarov | citigroup1: I work in a pure-software shop. And even when we develop the same software that you do (for financial instituions), it is much easier for us to hire people. |
| citigroup2 | that said - for top notch results you need to build your own infrastructure. |
| citigroup1 | agreed that is is hard being a financial institution.... i guess the interesting thing is that we are a small / dedicated group of people that does not feel like a 'financial institution' |
| elizarov | citigroup1: I've seen a lot of people who changed jobs, just because they despised to work for non-software company, even if their new job will entail doing the same stuff |
| citigroup1 | there are these big backoffice groups in banks that do bill payment / non business realted programming. these are very different to the groups we represent. |
| fagiani | are you still talking about the citigroup opportunities? |
| auror | actually by joining a financial institution, a programmer might think that they'll do basically the same job in the rest of their career (making financial programs etc). It's different from a pure-software house that develops many kind of softwares. |
| citigroup1 | wall street is going electronic. trading is about good systems. being a 'great trader' is less important because so much of the volumen is now traded by algorihtms |
| citigroup2 | we don't build "software products". we solve problems with computers. i believe it is somewhat different |
| fagiani | I'd like to know about foreign sponsor possibilities... |
| AdminBrett | citigroup2: I may have missed your answer... what does a quant do? |
| amirshim | elizarov: Some people prefer to be hands-on with the systems they write, tuning them to perform better and better on a day-to-day basis, some don't. |
| elizarov | citigroup1: I understand the kind of work you do perfectly, because I've worked with your kind. But how do you explain that to regular programmer? For him you're just a big financial institution. |
| citigroup2 | quants do "quantitative" things - analyzing data, looking for patterns, testing strategies. it is a rather loose term, as a good quant is always a good programmer |
| juan | citigroup1: "bias against finance" <- bright guys think the challenging problems are in engineering r&d, e.g. communications technologies, dsp, etc. rather than in finance. more due to ignorance |
| citigroup2 | not true about challenging problems - financial problems are extremely challenging |
| citigroup2 | good luck everyone |
| amirshim | good luck |
